2006–MARYLAND: B.B.BEACH, ADVENTISTS AND PRESBYTERIANS DIALOGUE.
To be one church is a spiritual church, and it is not necessary that there should be one visible church.” A Presbyterian leader.
[As a result of these and other meetings, the General Conference will never be able to participate in the LOUD CRY of Rev. 18:1-4.–unless it repents]
Representatives of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) engaged in dialogue on November 1, 2006, at the Adventist world headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland. The purpose of the dialogue was to gain a clearer understanding of each faith community’s beliefs and practices; to clarify areas of misunderstand-ing; and to explore possible areas of cooperation.
The Adventist Church engages in conversation with other churches, but is not a member of the ecumenical movement in the United States or internationally. The 2.4 million-member Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has a strong commitment to improve relations among churches in the United States.
The dialogue centered in two formal presentations, followed by discussion. William G. Johnsson, editor of the Adventist Review, presented a profile of Seventh-day Adventists; and Sheldon Sorge from the Presbyterian Church’s Office of Theology and Worship (U.S.A.) shared the history, teachings, and ethos of his church.
Other participants in the dialogue were Adventists
John Graz, director of Public Affairs and Religious Liberty at the General Conference;
Angel Rodriguez, director of the Biblical Research Institute;
Kwabena Donkor, associate director of the Biblical Research Institute;
Bert B. Beach, retired Adventist statesman; and
Halvard Thomsen, assistant to the president for the North American Division.
The Presbyterian representatives were Carlos L. Malave, associate for Ecumenical Relations and assistant stated clerk at the Office of the General Assembly; Eunice McGarrahan, a pastor at the National Presbyterian Church in Washington, D.C.; Aurelio Garcia, associate professor of Humanities at the University of Puerto Rico; and David Jensen, associate professor of Constructive Theology at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
The dialogue was co-chaired by Graz and Malave, and was described by participants as being marked by a spirit of friendliness, openness, and desire to understand.
A second round of conversations, hosted by the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), will be held August 22-24, 2007, at the Presbyterian Center in Louisville, Kentucky.
Joint Release by the Seventh-day Adventist and Presbyterian Churches.
[NOTE: The Bible calls a “dialogue” by its real name, “spiritual fornication.” See Rev. 14:8. After 41 years of participating in ecumenical apostasy, B.B.Beach is called an Adventist statesman. Since when does the SDA church have a statesman? A mark of Babylonian fornication is that fallen churches, having lost the power of the gospel, press close to the state for civil power.]
Five representative from the SDA church and five from the [fallen Babylonian] Presbyterian Church met at the General Conference office for a dialogue about their respective faiths. From left: Bert Beach, William Johnsson, David Jensen, Eunice McGarrahan, Kwabena Donkor, Carlos Malave, John Graz, Aurelio Garcia, Sheldon Sorge, and Angel Rodriguez, [Johnathan Gallagher.].
NOTICE WHAT THE PRESBYTERIAN REPRESENTATIVE SAID ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF THESE MEETINGS in the PARL article next:
Presbyterians Welcomed to Adventist World Church HQ to Continue Dialogue
Silver Spring, Maryland, USA… A group of visiting representatives from the Presbyterian Church USA were welcomed by Halvard Thomsen, assistant to the president of the Seventh-day Adventist Church for North America. He also expressed appreciation for the opportunity to sharpen our friendship, as the Adventist-Presbyterian dialogue continued.
Responding, Dr Carlos Maleve, leader of the Presbyterian delegation, spoke of his delight that his work “was to make friends,” and spoke of the spiritual unity described by Jesus in John 17. “To be one church is a spiritual church, and it is not necessary that there should be one visible church. We are one together in Christian love, love that comes from Christian faith, love for one another for the sake of the gospel.
[NOTE: His words sound good and loving, but it puts the SDA church into a position where it is totally unable to give the Three Angel’s messages in a Loud Cry of Rev. 18:1-4, which calls for God’s people in these organizations to come out lest they be partakers of their church’s corporate sins.
Apparently there will be no need for all churches to get together into one organization–a visible church unity. SDA’s, Methodist, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. can all run their own ships, but really be one ship. That way the membership of each church will not notice any difference.]
Dr John Graz, director of the Public Affairs and Religious Liberty department for the Adventist Church worldwide, made a presentation to the visitors and also welcomed the ongoing dialogue that “brought better understanding of one another.” [PARL News]
Presbyterians Welcomed to Adventist World Church HQ to Continue Dialogue
Silver Spring, Maryland, USA… A group of visiting representatives from the Presbyterian Church USA were welcomed by Halvard Thomsen, assistant to the president of the Seventh-day Adventist Church for North America. He also expressed appreciation for the opportunity to sharpen our friendship, as the Adventist-Presbyterian dialogue continued.
Responding, Dr Carlos Maleve, leader of the Presbyterian delegation, spoke of his delight that his work “was to make friends,” and spoke of the spiritual unity described by Jesus in John 17. “To be one church is a spiritual church, and it is not necessary that there should be one visible church. We are one together in Christian love, love that comes from Christian faith, love for one another for the sake of the gospel.
[NOTE: His words sound good and loving, but it puts the SDA church into a position where it is totally unable to give the Three Angel’s messages in a Loud Cry of Rev. 18:1-4, which calls for God’s people in these organizations to come out lest they be partakers of their church’s corporate sins.
Apparently there will be no need for all churches to get together into one organization–a visible church unity. SDA’s, Methodist, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. can all run their own ships, but really be one ship. That way the membership of each church will not notice any difference.]
Dr John Graz, director of the Public Affairs and Religious Liberty department for the Adventist Church worldwide, made a presentation to the visitors and also welcomed the ongoing dialogue that “brought better understanding of one another.” [PARL News]
Dr John Graz (L) makes a presentation [OF WHAT?] to Dr. Carlos Maleve (R) of the Presbyterians
SOME FACTS, SOME QUESTIONS, SOME ANSWERS, A CALL TO REPENT
FACT 1: The SDA church was raised up for one purpose: to give the Three Angels Messages of Rev. 14:6-12. “In a special sense Seventh-day Adventists have been set in the world as watchmen and light bearers. To them has been entrusted the last warning for a perishing world. On them is shining wonderful light from the word of God. They have been given a work of the most solemn import, the proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages. There is no other work of so great importance. They are to allow nothing else to absorb their attention.” 9Testimonies, 19.
FACT 2: Seventh-day Adventist church leaders presently are having discussions with Presbyterian church leaders.
FACT 2a: Adventist church leaders are not representing themselves, but are representing the entire SDA church.
FACT 2b: The Presbyterian church leaders were selected to represent the Presbyterian church organization.
FACT 3: We must not forget that the Presbyterian church organization fell in 1844 by rejecting light from heaven, and is part of fallen Babylon, from which God’s people inside that church and others are called out by the Second Angel’s Message.
QUESTION 1: So what are these discussions all about?
ANSWER: It is pure ecumenicalism–the lowering of Protestant standards and a movement together of different church organizations to a position closer to Rome. Unfortunately, the SDA church is involved in this one. The result is that the General Conference will never be able to participate in the LOUD CRY of Rev. 18:1-4. Instead, it will be an enemy of those that do give this message.
QUESTION: What did the SDA representatives talk about specifically?
ANSWER: SDA church members were not told.
QUESTION: Did the Seventh-day Adventist church (through its representatives) tell the Presbyterian church (through its representatives) that their church is in a fallen condition and must repent corporately of violating God’s immutable law of love, and of teaching others to disobey it? See Matthew 5:17-19.
ANSWER: No.
QUESTION: The first angel’s message has in it a call to worship the Creator on the seventh-day Sabbath. Also in the first angel’s message is the everlasting gospel. The gospel saves us from sin, not in sin. It brings God people into obedience to His holy law, including the fourth commandment to keep the seventh-day Sabbath holy. Was the Presbyterian church asked to accept the First Angel’s message?
ANSWER: No.
QUESTION: Who is paying for these discussions?
ANSWER: You, the Adventist church member. Your tithe, given in sacred trust, is paying for the salaries of these men to do this work that is opposed to the Three Angel’s Messages. Your offerings help to finance the location for the discussions.
RECOMMENDATION: We are calling on B.B.Beach and all the SDA church representatives, as well as the General Conference to repent:
1) by a public apology through the official organ of communication with church members, the Review.
2) by ceasing these discussions, and
3) by giving the First and Second Angel’s message to the Presbyterian church leaders to come out of their church organization and accept the light of present truth in the Three Angel’s Messages.
BEACH IN ANOTHER ‘DIALOGUE’
The year 2006 was marked by another ecumenical dialogue. Yes, B.B.Beach was again involved. We call on all the ones participating as representatives of the SDA church, as well as the Gen. Conference, who sent them, to repent.
See Adventists and Evangelicals Meet in Dialogue, August 16, 2006 on the next page, or
http://www.stanet.ch/apd/news/archiv/4755.html
Prague: Adventists and Evangelicals Meet in Dialogue
Adventists and Evangelicals Meet in Dialogue
Photo: Christian B. Schaffler APD
Representatives of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church and the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA) met in dialogue August 8-11, 2006 on the campus of the International Baptist Theological Seminary, located in Prague, Czech Republic. Although informal contacts had occurred during the past 50 years, this was the first official meeting of the two groups.
The purposes of the dialogue were: To gain a clearer understanding of the theological positions of each body; To clarify matters of misunderstanding; To discuss frankly areas of agreement and disagreement on a Biblical basis; and to explore possible areas of cooperation.
Adventists and Evangelicals Meet in Dialogue
Photo: Christian B. Schaffler APD
Representing the Evangelical Alliance were: Dr. Rolf Hille (Tuebingen /Germany), chairman of the Theological Commission, WEA; Dr. Juerg Buchegger; Pastor James Kautt; Dr. Herbert Klement; Dr. Ian Randall, joined by theological expert Dr. Reinhard Hempelmann. The Seventh-day Adventist representatives were: Dr. John Graz (Silver Spring, MD/USA), Secretary of the Council on Interchurch / Interfaith Relations; Dr. Niels-Erik Andreasen; Dr. Bert B. Beach; Dr. Kwabena Donkor; Dr. Eugene Hsu; Dr. William Johnsson; Dr. Teresa Reeve; and Dr. Angel Rodriguez. Drs. Hille and Graz co-chaired the discussions.
The dialogue proceeded via several papers and presentations that described the respective profiles of Adventists and the Alliance. Representatives discussed the platform of beliefs held in common by Evangelicals: the Holy Scriptures, the Trinity, the Lord Jesus Christ, justification by faith, the new birth, the unity of the Spirit, and the Resurrection. They also considered Adventist presentations on the interpretation of Scripture; Gospel, Law, and the Sabbath; and relations with other churches.
Representatives participated together in daily worship and fellowship. The dialogue revealed a large measure of common ground as agreement was found between the beliefs of the Evangelical Alliance Statement of Faith and the Adventist Statement of Fundamental Beliefs; further, the two groups shared a spirit of devotion and piety, a strong belief in the inspiration and authority of Scripture, and a common concern for united Christian witness in an age of increasing secularism and religious pluralism.
The meeting concluded by planning for a second round of discussions to be held August 6-10, 2007, on the campus of Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan, USA. Topics to be covered include the role and authority of Ellen White; Adventists’ approach to Biblical apocalyptic, including the teaching of the pre-Advent judgment and the Remnant; and trends among Evangelicals worldwide.
The Evangelical World Alliance represents some 420 million evangelical Christians in 127 countries drawn from many denominations. The Seventh-day Adventist Church, a Christian World Communion, has more than 30 million members and adepts in 204 countries.
[Note: The Trinity and the Lord Jesus Christ are held in common. That sounds good. But most readers do not realize that it is a different God and Jesus Christ than what they know. Churches in spiritual Babylon hold to different concepts of God and Jesus Christ than are found in the Bible. Jude 3,4 gives us the warning of what is happening in our day: We are told to “earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints, for there a certain men crept in unawares, who were of old ordained to this condemnation… denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.]
FACT 1: The SDA church was raised up for one purpose: to give the Three Angels Messages of Rev. 14:6-12. “In a special sense Seventh-day Adventists have been set in the world as watchmen and light bearers. To them has been entrusted the last warning for a perishing world. On them is shining wonderful light from the word of God. They have been given a work of the most solemn import, the proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages. There is no other work of so great importance. They are to allow nothing else to absorb their attention.” 9Testimonies, 19.
FACT 2: Seventh-day Adventist church leaders presently are having discussions with Presbyterian church leaders.
FACT 2a: Adventist church leaders are not representing themselves, but are representing the entire SDA church.
FACT 2b: The Presbyterian church leaders were selected to represent the Presbyterian church organization.
FACT 3: We must not forget that the Presbyterian church organization fell in 1844 by rejecting light from heaven, and is part of fallen Babylon, from which God’s people inside that church and others are called out by the Second Angel’s Message.
QUESTION 1: So what are these discussions all about?
ANSWER: It is pure ecumenicalism–the lowering of Protestant standards and a movement together of different church organizations to a position closer to Rome. Unfortunately, the SDA church is involved in this one. The result is that the General Conference will never be able to participate in the LOUD CRY of Rev. 18:1-4. Instead, it will be an enemy of those that do give this message.
QUESTION: What did the SDA representatives talk about specifically?
ANSWER: SDA church members were not told.
QUESTION: Did the Seventh-day Adventist church (through its representatives) tell the Presbyterian church (through its representatives) that their church is in a fallen condition and must repent corporately of violating God’s immutable law of love, and of teaching others to disobey it? See Matthew 5:17-19.
ANSWER: No.
QUESTION: The first angel’s message has in it a call to worship the Creator on the seventh-day Sabbath. Also in the first angel’s message is the everlasting gospel. The gospel saves us from sin, not in sin. It brings God people into obedience to His holy law, including the fourth commandment to keep the seventh-day Sabbath holy. Was the Presbyterian church asked to accept the First Angel’s message?
ANSWER: No.
QUESTION: Who is paying for these discussions?
ANSWER: You, the Adventist church member. Your tithe, given in sacred trust, is paying for the salaries of these men to do this work that is opposed to the Three Angel’s Messages. Your offerings help to finance the location for the discussions.
RECOMMENDATION: We are calling on B.B.Beach and all the SDA church representatives, as well as the General Conference to repent:
1) by a public apology through the official organ of communication with church members, the Review.
2) by ceasing these discussions, and
3) by giving the First and Second Angel’s message to the Presbyterian church leaders to come out of their church organization and accept the light of present truth in the Three Angel’s Messages.
BEACH IN ANOTHER ‘DIALOGUE’
The year 2006 was marked by another ecumenical dialogue. Yes, B.B.Beach was again involved. We call on all the ones participating as representatives of the SDA church, as well as the Gen. Conference, who sent them, to repent.
See Adventists and Evangelicals Meet in Dialogue, August 16, 2006 on the next page, or
http://www.stanet.ch/apd/news/archiv/4755.html
Prague: Adventists and Evangelicals Meet in Dialogue
Adventists and Evangelicals Meet in Dialogue
Photo: Christian B. Schaffler APD
Representatives of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church and the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA) met in dialogue August 8-11, 2006 on the campus of the International Baptist Theological Seminary, located in Prague, Czech Republic. Although informal contacts had occurred during the past 50 years, this was the first official meeting of the two groups.
The purposes of the dialogue were: To gain a clearer understanding of the theological positions of each body; To clarify matters of misunderstanding; To discuss frankly areas of agreement and disagreement on a Biblical basis; and to explore possible areas of cooperation.
Adventists and Evangelicals Meet in Dialogue
Photo: Christian B. Schaffler APD
Representing the Evangelical Alliance were: Dr. Rolf Hille (Tuebingen /Germany), chairman of the Theological Commission, WEA; Dr. Juerg Buchegger; Pastor James Kautt; Dr. Herbert Klement; Dr. Ian Randall, joined by theological expert Dr. Reinhard Hempelmann. The Seventh-day Adventist representatives were: Dr. John Graz (Silver Spring, MD/USA), Secretary of the Council on Interchurch / Interfaith Relations; Dr. Niels-Erik Andreasen; Dr. Bert B. Beach; Dr. Kwabena Donkor; Dr. Eugene Hsu; Dr. William Johnsson; Dr. Teresa Reeve; and Dr. Angel Rodriguez. Drs. Hille and Graz co-chaired the discussions.
The dialogue proceeded via several papers and presentations that described the respective profiles of Adventists and the Alliance. Representatives discussed the platform of beliefs held in common by Evangelicals: the Holy Scriptures, the Trinity, the Lord Jesus Christ, justification by faith, the new birth, the unity of the Spirit, and the Resurrection. They also considered Adventist presentations on the interpretation of Scripture; Gospel, Law, and the Sabbath; and relations with other churches.
Representatives participated together in daily worship and fellowship. The dialogue revealed a large measure of common ground as agreement was found between the beliefs of the Evangelical Alliance Statement of Faith and the Adventist Statement of Fundamental Beliefs; further, the two groups shared a spirit of devotion and piety, a strong belief in the inspiration and authority of Scripture, and a common concern for united Christian witness in an age of increasing secularism and religious pluralism.
The meeting concluded by planning for a second round of discussions to be held August 6-10, 2007, on the campus of Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan, USA. Topics to be covered include the role and authority of Ellen White; Adventists’ approach to Biblical apocalyptic, including the teaching of the pre-Advent judgment and the Remnant; and trends among Evangelicals worldwide.
The Evangelical World Alliance represents some 420 million evangelical Christians in 127 countries drawn from many denominations. The Seventh-day Adventist Church, a Christian World Communion, has more than 30 million members and adepts in 204 countries.
[Note: The Trinity and the Lord Jesus Christ are held in common. That sounds good. But most readers do not realize that it is a different God and Jesus Christ than what they know. Churches in spiritual Babylon hold to different concepts of God and Jesus Christ than are found in the Bible. Jude 3,4 gives us the warning of what is happening in our day: We are told to “earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints, for there a certain men crept in unawares, who were of old ordained to this condemnation… denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.]
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