Letting Roman Catholics Off the Hook
Posted January 4th, 2010 by Loren Seibold
Editor's Note: This is a preview article that appears on page 22 of our brand-new winter 2010 print issue being delivered to our subscribers this month. not yet a subscriber? Click here to purchase at the promotional rate of only $19.50/year. Note: A free PDF file of this feature article is also attached below.
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By Loren Seibold
For over a century, even before the publication of The Great Controversy, we Adventists have regarded the Roman Catholic Church leadership, typified in the first beast of Revelation 13, as our arch-nemesis, our bête noire, the enemy that takes the evil part in the apocalyptic scenario against God's remnant.
Here are seven reasons why it may be time to question them in that role.
1. More than a hundred years have passed since our prophet approved these prophetic applications. Ellen White expected Jesus to return long before this.1 We're not sure why that hasn't happened. But isn't it possible that some details of the apocalyptic scenario set out in the 1890s may have changed by the 2010s? It happened to Israel. Not all of the original Old Testament prophecies about them and their role came to pass. We call it "conditional prophecy."
2. Principles might be more diagnostic than players. That we oppose those who would legislate matters that should be left to an individual's conscience is a principle I value, and I'm proud of Seventh-day Adventist efforts to protect religious liberty. But if it should happen that someone other than the Roman Catholic Church begins to act like the beast of Revelation 13, we will be more ready to respond if we are watching for a violation of the principle than if waiting for one specific group to offend.
3. Ellen White fingered Catholicism in a very different world. Historians have shown that 19th-century American anti-Catholicism grew out of a general anti-immigrant nativism.2 In an era when we have had and could again have a liberty-loving Roman Catholic president, when Catholic immigrants have become our young work force, why can't we preach the gospel without identifying Roman Catholicism as Satan's exclusive tool?
4. The Roman Catholic Church of today is a much different institution than it was during Ellen White's time. The Second Ecumenical Council of the Vatican (1962-1965) radically altered that denomination's theology and practices. Vatican II declared the gospel central to church theology, made worship accessible, denied that Roman Catholics only can be saved, encouraged lay Bible study, and affirmed religious liberty. While not quite a Protestant Reformation, today's Catholic Church is not the same Catholic Church referenced in our 19th-century eschatological studies. Among other things, the Second Ecumenical Council weakened Vatican authority over world Catholics-as evidenced by the 78 percent of American Catholics who oppose their church's ban on contraception.3
5. By focusing on Roman Catholicism, we may miss more dangerous anti-Christian opponents. Far more Christians have been killed, persecuted, or denied their religious liberty by Communism, military Fascism, and Islamist extremism in the past century than by Roman Catholics; we've let these pass with minimal comment (in the case of Naziism, even offering some pusillanimous cooperation) as we continued to warn against the pope. Today religious liberty still has more dangerous enemies than Catholicism–in the United States, perhaps even some of our fellow conservative Protestants.
6. God has given us time to become a world church, and that changes the cast of characters in our eschatology. The "antichrists"-opposers of Christ–to many of today's world Christians are radical imams or cruel dictators. One site of Christian persecution right now is northern Nigeria, where Muslims burn churches and kill Christians.4 An eschatology that expects only Roman Catholics to initiate religious oppression, only in the United States, and only around the Sabbath question, may fail to speak prophetically should apocalyptic markers appear elsewhere.
7. Religious liberty has arguably improved in countries where Catholicism has influence. During my lifetime, the papacy has frequently been a force for peace and freedom. Pope John Paul II opened the first breach in the Iron Curtain, and Catholics have been more forthright in speaking against violence and oppression than many of our fellow conservative Protestants. Consider the irony that our evangelists are employing anti-Catholic teachings for soul winning in countries where the papacy helped win them that freedom! (And the even greater irony that some of us still think that calling the Pope the Antichrist is necessary to win souls to Christ.)
Of course, we don't give the Roman Catholic church a free pass; we subject it to the same Biblical scrutiny we would any other influential world power. (And while we're at it, we'd do well always to scrutinize ourselves by the same metrics we use on others–which is Jesus' advice, not mine.5)
But perhaps we needn't single out Roman Catholicism any longer. Ellen White, who was often more flexible than her followers, wrote: "God wants us all to have common sense, and He wants us to reason from common sense. Circumstances alter conditions. Circumstances change the relation of things."6
Roman Catholicism has served us well as an enemy: provocative enough to keep us energized, yet doing minimal actual damage to us. Such an important enemy made us feel significant, "in the know," and in control, while not really disturbing our lives.
Opposing current enemies might thrust us into prophetic roles that take more commitment and action. My friend Bert B. Beach, speaking of Adventist eschatology, once said to me: "I'm suspicious when people are constantly focused on what's going to happen in the future. I think they're trying to avoid dealing with what's going on right now."
I think Bert is on to something. Could we become as enthusiastic in taking on the religious persecution that's happening to Christians right now, in places like Nigeria, as we've been in accusing Roman Catholicism of planning to someday persecute us here?
Posted January 4th, 2010 by Loren Seibold
Editor's Note: This is a preview article that appears on page 22 of our brand-new winter 2010 print issue being delivered to our subscribers this month. not yet a subscriber? Click here to purchase at the promotional rate of only $19.50/year. Note: A free PDF file of this feature article is also attached below.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Loren Seibold
For over a century, even before the publication of The Great Controversy, we Adventists have regarded the Roman Catholic Church leadership, typified in the first beast of Revelation 13, as our arch-nemesis, our bête noire, the enemy that takes the evil part in the apocalyptic scenario against God's remnant.
Here are seven reasons why it may be time to question them in that role.
1. More than a hundred years have passed since our prophet approved these prophetic applications. Ellen White expected Jesus to return long before this.1 We're not sure why that hasn't happened. But isn't it possible that some details of the apocalyptic scenario set out in the 1890s may have changed by the 2010s? It happened to Israel. Not all of the original Old Testament prophecies about them and their role came to pass. We call it "conditional prophecy."
2. Principles might be more diagnostic than players. That we oppose those who would legislate matters that should be left to an individual's conscience is a principle I value, and I'm proud of Seventh-day Adventist efforts to protect religious liberty. But if it should happen that someone other than the Roman Catholic Church begins to act like the beast of Revelation 13, we will be more ready to respond if we are watching for a violation of the principle than if waiting for one specific group to offend.
3. Ellen White fingered Catholicism in a very different world. Historians have shown that 19th-century American anti-Catholicism grew out of a general anti-immigrant nativism.2 In an era when we have had and could again have a liberty-loving Roman Catholic president, when Catholic immigrants have become our young work force, why can't we preach the gospel without identifying Roman Catholicism as Satan's exclusive tool?
4. The Roman Catholic Church of today is a much different institution than it was during Ellen White's time. The Second Ecumenical Council of the Vatican (1962-1965) radically altered that denomination's theology and practices. Vatican II declared the gospel central to church theology, made worship accessible, denied that Roman Catholics only can be saved, encouraged lay Bible study, and affirmed religious liberty. While not quite a Protestant Reformation, today's Catholic Church is not the same Catholic Church referenced in our 19th-century eschatological studies. Among other things, the Second Ecumenical Council weakened Vatican authority over world Catholics-as evidenced by the 78 percent of American Catholics who oppose their church's ban on contraception.3
5. By focusing on Roman Catholicism, we may miss more dangerous anti-Christian opponents. Far more Christians have been killed, persecuted, or denied their religious liberty by Communism, military Fascism, and Islamist extremism in the past century than by Roman Catholics; we've let these pass with minimal comment (in the case of Naziism, even offering some pusillanimous cooperation) as we continued to warn against the pope. Today religious liberty still has more dangerous enemies than Catholicism–in the United States, perhaps even some of our fellow conservative Protestants.
6. God has given us time to become a world church, and that changes the cast of characters in our eschatology. The "antichrists"-opposers of Christ–to many of today's world Christians are radical imams or cruel dictators. One site of Christian persecution right now is northern Nigeria, where Muslims burn churches and kill Christians.4 An eschatology that expects only Roman Catholics to initiate religious oppression, only in the United States, and only around the Sabbath question, may fail to speak prophetically should apocalyptic markers appear elsewhere.
7. Religious liberty has arguably improved in countries where Catholicism has influence. During my lifetime, the papacy has frequently been a force for peace and freedom. Pope John Paul II opened the first breach in the Iron Curtain, and Catholics have been more forthright in speaking against violence and oppression than many of our fellow conservative Protestants. Consider the irony that our evangelists are employing anti-Catholic teachings for soul winning in countries where the papacy helped win them that freedom! (And the even greater irony that some of us still think that calling the Pope the Antichrist is necessary to win souls to Christ.)
Of course, we don't give the Roman Catholic church a free pass; we subject it to the same Biblical scrutiny we would any other influential world power. (And while we're at it, we'd do well always to scrutinize ourselves by the same metrics we use on others–which is Jesus' advice, not mine.5)
But perhaps we needn't single out Roman Catholicism any longer. Ellen White, who was often more flexible than her followers, wrote: "God wants us all to have common sense, and He wants us to reason from common sense. Circumstances alter conditions. Circumstances change the relation of things."6
Roman Catholicism has served us well as an enemy: provocative enough to keep us energized, yet doing minimal actual damage to us. Such an important enemy made us feel significant, "in the know," and in control, while not really disturbing our lives.
Opposing current enemies might thrust us into prophetic roles that take more commitment and action. My friend Bert B. Beach, speaking of Adventist eschatology, once said to me: "I'm suspicious when people are constantly focused on what's going to happen in the future. I think they're trying to avoid dealing with what's going on right now."
I think Bert is on to something. Could we become as enthusiastic in taking on the religious persecution that's happening to Christians right now, in places like Nigeria, as we've been in accusing Roman Catholicism of planning to someday persecute us here?
.
1 She wasn't alone; the apostles expected Jesus in their lifetimes, too (see Matt. 24:34, Heb. 1:1-2, 2 Thess. 1:6-10).
2 See Ernest Tuveson's Redeemer Nation and John Higham's Strangers in the Land: Patterns of American Nativism, 1860-1925.
3 http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050418/18american.htm
4 And sometimes, sadly, vice versa.
5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" (Matt. 7:2, NIV).
6 Selected Messages, Vol. 3, p. 217.
1 She wasn't alone; the apostles expected Jesus in their lifetimes, too (see Matt. 24:34, Heb. 1:1-2, 2 Thess. 1:6-10).
2 See Ernest Tuveson's Redeemer Nation and John Higham's Strangers in the Land: Patterns of American Nativism, 1860-1925.
3 http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050418/18american.htm
4 And sometimes, sadly, vice versa.
5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" (Matt. 7:2, NIV).
6 Selected Messages, Vol. 3, p. 217.
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Dude,
ReplyDeletewhoah.... Let's remember a few things. First of all the Catholic church is not an enemy of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. They are an enemy of God. How do I know this? Because they meet all of the requirements to be the persecuting power spoken of in Daniel and Revelation, they still remain today the enemies of Liberty and freedom and they have finagled their way into world power status and are a constant threat to the current relative peace and prosperity we enjoy. Let's not forget that they and the so called protestant churches that keep Sunday have an agenda that would infringe upon our freedoms just like they did in Germany just recently.
Let's also remember that the last events are not conditional in nature. They will happen just as all of the events in the 2300 day prophecy that were predicted happened. That 2300 day prophetic period was the Alpha and now we are experiencing the Omega portion of prophecy. It is not bound by dates as was the earlier before stated time period and it's important to note that things are moving along quite nicely.
I'm not one of those people who are always passing email chains concerning some strange act that the Catholic Church is doing to fulfill prophecy but I am familiar with the role they will play in the last days as well as the daughter churches that still hold on to her mark of authority (Sunday keeping). It's important to remember that Christ did not live the life he lived and die the death that he died so that we could live our cozy little temporary lives here on earth. He wants to end sin and provide forgiveness and everlasting life to those who will accept it. This will not change. It is not conditional.
Hello nice write up.Heres an article about the beast of Revelation 13 which i feel could be useful to You http://tinyurl.com/yeuvs2o
ReplyDeleteshawn said...
ReplyDeleteDude,
whoah.... Let's remember a few things-------------
******************************
Dude?
Whoah?
Shawn,
My beliefs about the Beasts, The Antichrist (Otherchrist), etc., are founded on long held Protestant Reformation views; Not newfound speculations that many 'ecumenically inclined churched-folks', now adopt. I know full well that the Roman Catholic Church and its many orders are the enemy of God, and of His remnant. Now, that doesn't imply that the sunday worshiping Evangelical (Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterian, Lutherans) are not also mentioned in prophecy as future persecuters of God's faithful remnant. There is one fundamental difference betweeen the RCC and the churches previously called "Protestants, or Reformed", in that the latter were founded with the light they received from reading the undiluted word of God; This was further assisted thanks to the early reformers(Huss, Calvin, Luther, Mather, Know)who called the Catholic Church the Harlot of Revelation and its popes the Antichrists.
I am apalled by the Johnny come lately rationale that the Beast of Rome has changed, therefore we should revise our views about it. No such thing will ever occur to any true Bible students; The Beast of Rome is prophesied to spearhead the persecution of God's endtime faithful servants, in spite of all the Jesuit counter-Reformation propaganda.
I ain't buying it pardner!
It's actually time to circle the wagons (put on the whole armor), not time to smoke the peace pipe!
It's true that our struggle isn't with men or with the RCC, but, with principalities and powers evil spirits).
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Ephesians 6:12
I acknowledge that Roman Catholics, Evangelicals, Latter Day Protestants, and all faithful Christians despite their church afilliation are individually not the enemies of God; Christ died for all of them, too! But, the RCC (from the giddy-up) is founded on heathen Mithraic, Babylonian, and pagan traditions that usurp the Almighty God of Heaven, and pretend to take titles such as representative of Christ (vicarius filli dei) which belong to the Holy Spirit; By these acts they are blasphemous, and satanic. There can be no other logical explaniation of the RCC's assumptions of power.
The Lord is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow; Likewise His impostor hasn't changed since he first attempted a resurrection in Heaven... Think about it, compadre!
Arsenio,
Maranatha.
It's good to know you haven't left the ranch, though it's difficult to know from the original post what your view was you have made it clear now.
ReplyDeletethank you...
As I commented under this Adventist Today article:
ReplyDeleteOn February 15th, 2010 johntrainor says:
Loren, The Great Controversy was not written on the basis of the times or Ellen White's own suppositions, but on the basis of Bible prophecy and confirmations from the Most High God. The papacy is now trying to batter down the wall of separation between church and state every where she can. She is aggressively on the move, boldly insinuating herself into the affairs of our government here in the United States, seeking to influence our president, courts and elected representatives. She is maneuvering to reign over the European Union and resurrect the Holy Roman Empire - she wants Sunday observance enshrined in EU law, and seeks a clause that would force every citizen in the European Union to rest on Sunday. In no small part because of papal influence, Germany and Croatia already have a national Sunday law!
Even if we did not have the precious gift of the Spirit of Prophecy, history and current events testify that the papacy is unchanged! In his apostolic letter: Ad Tuendam Fidem, May 18, 1998, John Paul mentioned canon 1436.1 which says, “One who denies a truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or who calls it into doubt… is to be punished as a heretic or an apostate with major excommunication…”
Roman Catholic Author, Malachi Martin says in his book, The Keys of this Blood: "He is as determined to be world ruler as was Constantine in his day" (p. 49), and "The other two major contenders in the millennium endgame will be ELIMINATED" (* emphasis added). p. 657. The fearful thing is that one (the Soviets) of these contenders is already eliminated.
Prophecy is fulfilling remarkably before our very eyes! "God has revealed what is to take place in the last days, that his people may be prepared to stand against the tempest of opposition and wrath."
What Ellen White wrote on the basis of Bible prophecy is now coming to pass on a grand scale in front of the entire world! It is more relevant now than ever. With all due respect, you give the trumphet an uncertan sound.
John Trainor
Shawn,
ReplyDeleteAbout the Endrtimes featured article; You failed to notice the author of the piece:
"By Loren Seibold"
Adios, Hombre.
Arsenio,
Maranatha.