Published: June 18, 2007
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Transcript of the Charlie Rose show of June 15, 2007, with guests Zbigniew Brzezinski, Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft.
CHARLIE ROSE, HOST: Tonight, an extraordinary conversation with three foreign policy giants: Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft, and former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski. I interviewed them in New York yesterday evening, at an event organized by the Center for Strategic and International Studies. The conversation took place at the Rainbow Room high above Rockefeller Center here in New York.
CHARLIE ROSE: We are at the top of Manhattan at the Rainbow Room this evening for a conversation about the future of American foreign policy with Henry Kissinger, former secretary of state, former national security adviser. Zbigniew Brzezinski, former national security adviser. And Brent Scowcroft, former national security adviser.
I want to begin this conversation with Henry Kissinger with this question, and which I hope everybody will respond to - where are we as we think about this time in American foreign policy? Are we at a special moment, which is being redefined? Are we creating a new world order? What are the forces shaping all this?
HENRY KISSINGER: We're at a moment when the international system is in a period of change like we haven't seen for several hundred years. In some parts of the world, the nation state, on which the existing international system was based, is either giving up its traditional aspects, like in Europe, or as in the Middle East, where it was never really fully established, it is no longer the defining element. So in those two parts of the world, there is tremendous adjustment in traditional concepts.
In Asia, the nation state still is extremely vital, and of course, then in Africa, a whole new pattern is emerging because the states in Africa reflected the preferences of the colonial powers when they were established.
So all of these things are occurring simultaneously, and American foreign policy has to deal with all these aspects simultaneously, and there isn't a single recipe that fits all of them. And that is one of our dilemmas.
And another is that we are used to dealing with problems that have a solution and that can be solved in a finite period. But we're at the beginning of a long period of adjustment that will -- does not have a clear-cut terminal point, and in which our wisdom and sophistication and understanding is one of the -- has to be one of the key elements. And so all of these things are in play at this moment.
CHARLIE ROSE: Zbigniew, you said to me in a conversation last night on my program that there is a new global political awareness, which is central to
the future of America's foreign policy, how they recognize it, how they deal with it, how they plan for it.
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: That's right. I don't disagree with what Henry said, but ...
CHARLIE ROSE: Agree? Agree?
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: I don't disagree.
CHARLIE ROSE: You don't.
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: ... but my perspective...
HENRY KISSINGER: I've made great progress.
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: Don't be too optimistic.
HENRY KISSINGER: I take what I can get.
CHARLIE ROSE: Don't get -- don't get too excited, he says. The caveat comes.
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: The political awakening that is happening worldwide is a major challenge for America, because it means that the world is much more restless. It's stirring. It has aspirations which are not easily satisfied. And if America is to lead, it has to relate itself somehow to these new, lively, intense political aspirations, which make our age so different from even the recent past.
But the challenge that we face is rooted much more in the immediate problem, which we have partially created -- namely, we are the number one superpower today in the world. We are the only superpower. But our leadership is being tested in the Middle East, and some of the things that we have done in the Middle East are contributing to a potential explosion region-wide. And if that explosion gets out of hand, we may end up being bogged down for many years to come in a conflict that will be profoundly damaging to our capacity to exercise our power, to address the problems implicit in this global awakening, and we may face a world in which much of the world turns away from us, seeks its own equilibrium, but probably slides into a growing chaos.
Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/18/america/web-rose.php
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