RAP SESSION: PASTOR ELIZABETH TALBOT

Friday, April 13, 2007

RAP SESSION: PASTOR ELIZABETH TALBOT

This rap session features Elizabeth Talbot, a prominent Adventist senior pastor in Southern California. The interview was conducted as a collaboration between Claremont seminary student Trisha Famisaran, editor of Adventist Gender Justice and Marcel Schwantes, editor of Re-inventing the Adventist Wheel.

: : :

BIOGRAPHY

In early 2005, Elizabeth Talbot commenced her new position as senior pastor at The Grace Place Church in Alhambra, California, making denominational history as the only senior female pastor in the Southern California Seventh Day Adventist Conference. On December 16, 2006, Elizabeth was officially commissioned in a ceremony at her church. She holds a Master of Arts degree in Biblical Studies (M.A.R.) from the Haggard Graduate School of Theology at Azusa Pacific University, and a Master of Arts degree in Organizational Behavior. Elizabeth has the current honor of studying under the mentorship of renowned New Testament scholar Andrew Lincoln as a Ph.D. candidate for biblical studies at the University of Gloucestershire, United Kingdom.

: : :

Marcel: You weren't the first, but for a while, you were the only female senior pastor hired by the Southern California Conference. Did that have special significance? What did it mean to you?

The significance at the time was that God can do more than we ask or imagine. When I switched professions in my late 30's, some people around me asked why, being that they thought I could never get anywhere as a pastor because of my gender. I told them I just wanted a chance to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, because it was a fire God had placed "in my bones". It is God who proved them wrong. So, the greatest significance for me is that God's purposes cannot be frustrated for long...

Marcel: Your church, the Grace Place, has doubled in attendance since you came on board, according to one article. What do you attribute that growth to?

I have no doubt that it is related to the preaching emphasis on the gospel: the good news of Jesus Christ. People are thirsty for Jesus. The first Sabbath I was there we had a new verse as a motto: "If I am lifted up, I will draw all people to myself" (John 12:32). The growth is related to the fulfillment of that promise from Jesus' mouth. My core preaching is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Everything I preach is FOUNDED in this core truth. I believe the life, death and resurrection of Jesus (SDA Doctrine # 9) is the core doctrine of any true theology.

Marcel: Flashback to your days as Associate Pastor at Vallejo Drive SDA Church. You worked with one of the iconic figures of evangelical Adventism in Smuts van Rooyen. What was that experience like?

Smuts is a brilliant thinker, philosopher and theologian. I have learned so much from him and I will always love him as my mentor. At the beginning our personalities clashed a lot, so God used us to be a "sand paper" for each other's personalities. As time went by we became so close, holding long theological discussions very often. We still try to keep in touch and whenever we see each other in workers meetings we start discussing theology immediately. It's always a blast! I know that God designed that I should work under him for those 4 years. I will eternally be grateful for the legacy he passed on to me.

Marcel: You've been very critical of the controversial book written by your Union president, entitled Hidden Heresy?: Is Spiritualism Invading the Adventist Church? He suggests that the methodologies practiced by Adventist churches that model those of seeker-sensitive mega-churches like Saddleback and Willowcreek are "heresy" and not in harmony with the Adventist mission. Your reaction?

I have personally discussed with Elder (Tom) Mostert my concern about this book. We talked for about 4 hours. I even asked him to remove it from print. He explained to me what he was trying to say in the book... I continue to be whole heartedly opposed to a book that labels Spirit-filled methodologies for preaching the gospel and seeking non-Christians as "Hidden Heresy", especially as the General Conference Working Policy manual , policy No. O 110 so openly states:

"1. We recognize those agencies that lift up Christ before men as a part of the divine plan for evangelization of the world, and we hold in high esteem Christian men and women in other communions who are engaged in winning souls to Christ"
I think Hidden Heresy stands in open violation of the above mention policy.

Trisha: As a woman, did you wrestle with the "call" to pastoral ministry? Did you experience conflict with people around you, those who disagreed with a woman being called to pastoral ministry?

I felt the call to ministry when I was a toddler. My father was a minister. I used to preach to my dolls instead of playing with them, since I was 3 years old. When I was hired as a full-time pastor I had much support from my family, even though some family members were in a journey themselves. I did receive sarcastic comments from outsiders, people who thought it was crazy that I would leave my business career to get involved with ministry in the Adventist church. They thought that I had "no future.”

Trisha: What advice do you have for a woman who senses a call to pastoral ministry, but is hesitant to accept because her family and peers do not agree with such a break in tradition and gender roles?


Your call is vertical, not horizontal. If you believe that you have been called by God and therefore empowered every step of the way by His grace, then "horizontal" relationships become secondary to that call. That is what Jesus meant when He said "unless you hate your father and mother for my cause.” He was talking about priorities, not the violation of the 5th commandment. My advice is to heed your "vertical call.” He will make a way where there is no way, just like the parting of the Sea of Reeds - regularly known as the Red Sea. The desire to preach the gospel is like fire in my bones. It supersedes anything and everything.

Trisha: What is your take on the distinction and usefulness of "commissioned" versus "ordained" ministry? What are your thoughts on the efficacy and meaningfulness of male pastors who have chosen to be "commissioned," and those who have turned in their ordination credentials in the past, as a stance of solidarity with women ministers?

There is not much distinction between "commissioned" versus "ordained" ministers. It is a play on words in order to keep the world-wide church happy. The North American Division has made a "culture-sensitive" decision to accept women in the ministry, but that is not the case with the whole world. They seem to have found a temporary alternative in the change of wording. Solidarity from male co-workers is always welcomed, and yet I think the actual battle is to be fought in another battlefield. But each one does what they can in the sphere of influence they have.

Trisha: What do you think about this proposition? “The Seventh-day Adventist Church needs to begin having more conversations that are explicitly about sex and gender at the General Conference and academic levels in order to fully grapple with the question of the ordination of women.” Do you agree and, if so, how would you frame these questions and conversations as they relate to ordination?

I know that more dialogue needs to happen at the academic level in this issue. This is not my particular battle. I want to preach and teach the gospel as much as I am allowed. Unfortunately, many times humans delay God's plans, but He is sovereign and humans cannot completely frustrate His plans. But I do think others have been given this burden by God and they should pursue it as their purpose. I believe this issue is one of ignorance, and that is why academic conversations would be helpful. I think scholars with particular emphasis in "social criticism" and anthropological savvy would make a great contribution. I think the issues should be framed in the culture and time in which they were brought up in the NT so that a greater understanding of principles versus preferences may be achieved. As you can see in the link I sent you today*, we are not the only ones having issues in this area.

Marcel: Your first Masters degree is in Organizational Behavior. Put your change management hat on. If you were president of your local conference, what would you improve?

I am clear about 2 things:

A. Organizationally: I would flatten the organizational chart. It's too tall which, for practical purposes, sometimes becomes slow and inefficient.

B. Theologically: I would propose "Jesus based Evangelism" . I don't think that the evangelism programs currently "officially proposed" are necessarily GOOD NEWS about Jesus. Sometimes it feels as if we promote the church over Christ. This is an area that needs much growth, and I pray that we will catch on fire as a Conference: "He who has the Son, has life"

Marcel: As you stated to Trisha, your desire to preach the gospel is like fire in your bones. What does that look like five to ten years from now?

I am hoping to preach the Good News to more audiences, perhaps to the masses in stadiums, and through TV. I also want to teach more, to train ministers to think "Jesus" thoughts as the basis of their belief system. I know that God has prepared my future and is leading me there. And... He has things prepared that I have not heard of, or seen, or that have come to my mind yet. "He is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine"... and I can imagine a lot... yet He will surpass it for His glory. So, I can't wait!

Marcel: You're quite the distinguished ping-pong player and we have this rivalry going, which I believe I have the upper hand. You still think you can whip me in ping pong?

You believe you have the upper hand? I think you need to review your "belief system."

: : :

* [ Elizabeth is referring to an article from the right-wing evangelical group, Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood found here in which her seminary - Azusa Pacific University, is unjustly singled out for an advertisement featuring Elizabeth as the first senior pastor in her conference.]

Read other interview articles about Elizabeth Talbot here and here.
Listen to podcasts of Elizabeth's sermons here.
View webcasts of Elizabeth's sermons here.
.
.
Posted by Marcel at 10:27:00 PM
.
.
Source: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2007/04/rap-session-pastor-elizabeth-talbot.html
.